Reclaiming Power in the Birthing Room - Ainslee Winter's birth story.

There's a life-changing moment when a woman transforms into a mother – regardless of whether she always knew motherhood was her path. This raw, honest conversation with art therapist Ainsley Winter reveals her journey from uncertainty about motherhood to an empowered hospital birth experience.

Ainsley's story dismantles the false dichotomy between medicated and unmedicated births. Using the powerful "mountain versus gondola" analogy, she explains how she navigated her options and ultimately chose what felt right for her body – a hospital birth with epidural support. Yet her preparation was anything but passive. From childbirth education classes to doula support, breastfeeding preparation with her partner, and deep connection to the book "Birthing From Within," Ainsley created a foundation of knowledge that allowed her to maintain autonomy throughout her hospital experience.

What makes this episode particularly valuable is Ainsley's candid discussion of both the physical and mental aspects of birth. She describes the moment when her epidural began wearing off during transition, and how rhythmic breathing techniques grounded her through intense sensations. Her pushing experience – just 40 minutes ending with one powerful "monster roar" push – demonstrates how effective guidance and body awareness can create efficiency even with pain management.

The conversation extends beautifully into postpartum reflections, where Ainsley shares her surprise at how unprepared she felt for recovery despite extensive birth preparation. Her analogy of "training for a marathon and then getting hit by a bus" perfectly captures what many new mothers experience. She offers practical insights about creating protective space in those early days and honoring the profound bodily changes that continue long after birth.

Perhaps most compelling is how Ainsley connects her birth experience to her work as an art therapist, revealing how both journeys involve accessing wisdom beyond words. Her newfound "mother bear" energy now fuels her commitment to creating healing spaces where people can express complex emotions through creative processes.

Whether you're pregnant, supporting someone who is, or simply curious about authentic birth experiences, this conversation offers wisdom, warmth, and a refreshing perspective on how preparation and autonomy create empowerment, regardless of birth preferences. Listen, share, and join our community of women supporting women through life's most transformative experiences.

🔗 You can find out more about Ainslee at her website www.revivalthroughhands.com or her instagram @revival_through_hands

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Tend and Befriend
• 6:49 Meeting Ainsley and Her Birth Preparation
• 21:41 Laboring at Home and Hospital
• 32:36 Epidural Experience and Pushing
• 43:56 Meeting Baby and Postpartum Reflections
• 53:36 Motherhood and Art Therapy Connection

Transcript

Deborah : 0:06

Hey Mamas, you're listening to Tend and Befriend, a podcast about women's mental and physical health. This is Debra. I'm a mom of two, a labor and birth coach and birth advocate, a health professional, and today I'm your host. Let's dive into today's episode. Am your host. Let's dive into today's episode. Any information you hear or that is suggested or recommended on these episodes is not medical advice. Good morning mamas. Welcome back to Tend and Be Friend. I'm Debra, doula Debra, your host, and today I have something really special for you. We're welcoming Ainsley Winter, a beautiful new mama who's here to share the story of her little one's arrival. Every birth journey holds its own magic and Ainsley's story is filled with love, strength and those unforgettable first moments. I'm so honored to have her here with us and I'm really excited to talk about the community connection that came together for Ainsley's birth. Hi, ainsley, thank you for being with me today, hi.

Ainslee Winter: 1:09

Debra, thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here and so glad that we've been able to connect. Motherhood is something that I've always had in one side of my body as, yes, want to go that way. And then I had a whole another direction as well where I would have been okay not being a mother, and I actually think that we first met at a mama's circle at your place at pelvic love. Yes, I remember, yeah, and I remember sharing that within the group, and I think it takes some people by surprise, but it's been such an incredible, just like an awakening journey on so many levels. So I'm really excited that I'm here to share my birth story and just grounding in my intention that if my story can help one person, that that's good enough for me.

Deborah : 2:01

That's your purpose for being here. I actually remember that mama's circle and I remember hearing you say that and I have never met you at that time and you were already pregnant. Yes, you were already pregnant and I remember you saying I'm not really sure if I want to be a mother yet or not, because I've sat on the fence about that for years and here you were, pregnant and getting ready for birth. So I'm really excited. I want to know all of the details, but I want to start with. I want to start with how you prepared.

Deborah : 2:33

Yeah, because I think that as women, we were talking about that, talk a lot like we're talking about how to get ready for birth and there's a lot of controversy on what we do and what should be done. And some women are on this side of the fence you don't need to do anything, just show up and birth happens. And then we're on the other side where we do all the things and we get all the overwhelm about getting ready, and there has to be a happy medium. But I think when we tell our birth stories, we need to talk about it in a way that says this is what I did to prepare. Yeah, this is how my birth went. So tell me about your pregnancy. Obviously you went to a mama's circle, and then tell me about other things that you did.

Ainslee Winter: 3:15

I felt like I spent a lot of time preparing, mostly mentally and emotionally and spiritually, less physically. I did a variety of different things. I went to a mama's circle. I went to you for massage as well, and, as all your clientele can attest, you are just such a wealth of information, so that was very helpful. And then I did a conscious childbirth education course with Rochelle, so just learning a little bit more about what me and my partner were embarking on. We did hire a doula.

Ainslee Winter: 3:51

Yes, what we found to be really helpful and useful for us was having the doula was like a way for us to make decisions, and not once did we feel that there was a sense of judgment. Actually, I had no idea how, because Rochelle is a mother of three. I had no idea how her births went. I didn't even ask because I didn't want it to influence my decisions, and not once could I ever even tell what she did, which I really appreciated. We had the doula and that was really really, really helpful in making empowered decisions and just learning about some of the different steps along the way.

Ainslee Winter: 4:32

Hashem and I we also that's my partner, I'll reference him as Hashem he and I did a breastfeeding course. Yes as well, and we were told to have the partners, the husbands, come as well, and I'm so happy that we did, because after you give birth your brain is a little bit foggy and you want to just feel well supported. We both went to a breastfeeding course together and that was eye-opening and we both left there saying we would never look at boobs the same I love that, yes, but it was so informative.

Ainslee Winter: 5:06

It was so informative and it just it's a nice anchor into preparing yourself for what's to come and, yeah, being able to hand express, like all those, certain things I was preparing for prior to the baby even coming, which is grounding and helpful, especially as you're about to give birth. But yeah, I also read Birthing from Within, which is a book I'd love to chat further about it. Really, I can't get over how profound that book was for me.

Deborah : 5:44

Yeah.

Ainslee Winter: 5:45

It utilizes a lot of the art making process and, with my background in art therapy, that's very helpful for me. I'm a very visual learner, and not only is it about the art making pieces, but every chapter. I think the chapters were maybe one or two pages, so every night I would just read one chapter and I was surprised. Every single chapter surprised me. I would see the title and I'd be like, oh, I know what they're gonna say. And then they didn't and I was just like, wow, wow, I am being mind blown right now. So it was a very eye opening book to read. I read it from front to back and it has so much goodness in there.

Deborah : 6:31

Yes, I think that book is one of the books that I read myself on a regular basis, but I have had a lot of women who I've lent it to and they brought it back and said this is not for me. It does really take an individual who really understands that aspect of birthing and not just birth life really to really understand and get the message in that book. And it's not for everyone, which is fine too, but I really love that you've read that book. I didn't know that and that helps me understand a little bit more about what. Where you were going for your birth.

Deborah : 7:09

Yeah, I love that you said that about the breastfeeding, because here in Windsor and Essex County our breastfeeding rate is only 12%. What I'm seeing in the clinic and out in the doula community, I'm pretty sure it's because of lack of support, which is really interesting because right now I see the most content in and around my area and when I go out to expos and events in the community I see a lot of lactation consultants and international board certified lactation consultants and lactation counselors. But why isn't that showing up in our percentage? So where is that disconnect that is happening? And I think that the classes that you're talking about and bringing your partner so that you're setting yourself up for success is the first step, yeah. So I love that you did that and you brought Hesham.

Deborah : 8:03

I love that Hesham was involved in every single step and that is typical for birth partners now, but I love that he did that. Yeah, the fact that you'll never look at breasts the same way again I totally hear him saying that. I think that is the first step. I love that you did those things and you did a prenatal class. Even though you're very intuitive and very spiritual and very emotionally evolved, you still did the classes, knowing that. Okay, I trust my body and I trust my instinct and I trust my guides. I'm not going to go into this experience with just that. I also need a little bit more.

Ainslee Winter: 8:40

Yeah, and especially for me. This is my first time being pregnant, so I honestly didn't know what to expect, and even all the stories that you hear growing up, typically they're scary or you just it's dramatic. Everyone has such an intense experience. I would say it's something that people want to talk about and share about. Having never experienced it, I had no idea what to expect.

Ainslee Winter: 9:07

So something that was really helpful for me was reminding myself that our bodies were built for this. This is a natural thing. So often we just hear all of the stories about this happened and it totally takes you out of your body and so just having that reminder to come back into the body, my body would know what to do, starting to cycle into those thoughts of fear or what if this happens? What if that happens? That the anxiousness or the worry I would just come back to. That grounded thought and anchor of my body knows what to do. It will do what it needs to do. So I have really helpful and then some other helpful analogy Also in that in that course we watched birth like in a variety of different ways, whether it was natural, at the hospital, all those sorts of things that was hard for Hesham to watch. It was hard for me to watch too.

Ainslee Winter: 10:01

I had never seen prior to that but, obviously I had to, cause I was about to do that. So, looking away for me to watch too, I had never seen prior to that, but obviously I had to because I was about to do that. So looking away for me, for him, he did want to look away, but yeah, it was. That was really helpful. And then also the analogy. I don't know if you've heard of this, but Rochelle spoke about the mountain analogy. Yeah, well, we have, we're all going to the other side of the mountain. How we get there is our choice. So we choose to climb the mountain and really strenuous process. Or you can choose to have a completely different experience and ride the gondola above and look down, and your experience will be a little bit different. You're going to be up and look down and your experience will be a little bit different. You're going to be up and looking down, like dipping your toes into the experience a bit. And that was really helpful for me as well, and I definitely we chose the gondola.

Deborah : 10:57

Always choose the gondola, if you can.

Ainslee Winter: 11:01

Yeah, for my first one, we're going to do the gondola. I like to dip my toes. I'm not someone who just jumps in. I really like to feel things out, what's gonna happen. Yeah, basically, the gondola was more like we decided to have our birth in a hospital with an epidural Because my I have very bad pain management.

Deborah : 11:21

Okay.

Ainslee Winter: 11:22

Just my like. When I get my eyebrows threaded, I feel like I could vomit. I don't know how that will work when I'm giving birth. I know I can, I know I can do it and then but at that point and still I have no regrets I was just like this is what I want for my first experience. I'm going to take the gondola, I'd like an epidural and it will be in the hospital, but I want to be surrounded by support.

Ainslee Winter: 11:46

So we really made sure that we were supported by, with our doula, having my partner involved in as much as possible. My mom came to the hospital as well and then you have been really helpful as well, as you were really good friends with my sister-in-law and friend, and so we were able to connect as well prior to the birth, and connecting with you and your expertise was very helpful for both myself and Haysham in regards to advocacy and connecting with our own sense of power, because oftentimes when you're going into the hospital, you are told what to do. Opposed to that, we can ask questions and ask about the risks and ask how we can best support ourselves on this journey, and it made for a more empowering experience where we all felt more safe and comfortable going into it, just knowing that information, going into it, just knowing that information. So there were a few times in my during my birth process where we've we utilized, just like advocating for ourselves and just knowing some of this information ahead of time. I think it did really positively impact our birth.

Deborah : 12:59

We had yeah, I want to go back on a couple of things that you brought up. First of all, talking about your pain tolerance, and I think it's really important that, first of all, women understand that it's not just physical. Birth is not just physical. It takes a lot of mental and stamina and strength to really give birth in any way. Whatever way that is that you choose, you want to feel supported and choose a birth team that actually supports that, not someone who's you shouldn't be getting the epidural. That's not kind to women. And I think understanding in the beginning, like I'm not the type to do birth naturally in a birth tub in the middle of my living room, I want all the bells and whistles and the hospitals right, like I want to go in that is going to help me with the flow of my oxytocin so that my body can do what it needs to do. And I think that's where a lot of the information that's being told to women or taught to women is that this is your only choice or this is your only choice and if you don't choose this, then I'm not the supporter for you, or don't give birth here. I have seen incredible and amazingly profound births in the hospital with an epidural and I've supported that. It's whatever you want. I already had my births and my choices and my experiences and I think that the fact that you understood your pain tolerance, knowing that you have difficulty with eyebrow threading, puts you in a place to say this is my plan. I know myself, I know my body, I know my own strength. I don't know birth because I've never done it before, but I know that I'm going to make a pain management plan that fits with what I know about myself. Yeah, so profound that you did that.

Deborah : 14:50

I think that women, if they could take that first step in not necessarily planning for birth, because, as you can make a plan till the cows come home on that day, anything can change that plan. But talking about how you're going to manage certain situations, because you chose to give birth in a hospital, there's lots of policies. The nurses have a job, the doctors have a job and their primary position is to protect the policies and procedures of the birthing center that you've chosen. That means that they have a way of doing things and if you go in not knowing how to advocate for yourself and how to maintain autonomy, then you're going to follow a birth that is right for them, and you talked about that, advocating asking questions instead of just following their protocol, and there's nothing wrong with asking questions in that moment. If you feel that you can't ask a question, then that's a big red flag and if you're okay with it, great, go for it. And if there's anything wrong with your baby or yourself, go with what they're saying, because that's what they're trained to do.

Deborah : 15:56

But going in not knowing how to advocate for yourself typically leads to coming home and feeling like what just happened? What just happened. I love that. You took a childbirth class, a prenatal class. You worked with two doulas, with two different aspects of how to approach doula care, and you went in, you and your birth partner, knowing that you had all the tools and that showed up for you. Yeah, so did you labor at home?

Ainslee Winter: 16:27

Okay, good question. So I had a feeling that our baby would be born on the harvest moon and the eclipse was at the same time, so we went for a nice walk and that night I got some cramping and noticed that there was some blood and I decided that it might be best just to go in to make sure that everything was okay. And so we went to triage and the nurse couldn't really tell if my water had broke or if my membrane had been ruptured, and so I had even taken a picture I showed wasn't sure. And then, after waiting there for probably three hours, I saw the OB, because September is a very busy time. Basically. He said he didn't really know what to do with me Because he wasn't sure if my membrane was ruptured and I think, technically, if it had been, they're not supposed to discharge me.

Ainslee Winter: 17:25

However, I was advocating for myself to go home because I did not want to start laboring there. I was, I didn't know what to expect, but I definitely wasn't having contractions like soon to come, so I was like we're not going to do this, so I advocated to go home, and then we made a safety plan, myself and the OB and he let me go home, thankfully, so I could go home and take a bath and you said make sure you sleep and rest as much as you can. So I went home, I slept a lot of the day and then did a few walks here and there and then my contractions started that evening. So maybe like less than 24 hours later they were getting more intense. So I started tracking those contractions and became more intense. I was getting the back contractions that were going down my legs and my sisters had come over to help support me because Haysham was with me at the hospital all night prior and we were just all trying to like rest as much as we could and take turns supporting one another.

Deborah : 18:36

I love that so much. That gives me such community vibes Let the husband rest while mom does a few things with her community. I just love that. And it was still a hospital birth. People don't understand that. That is incredibly profound just supporting the mom in whatever way that she needs during labor and birth.

Ainslee Winter: 19:00

Yeah, and then utilizing some of those tools that I learned with my doula, because I had planned that my doula would come during active labor. So this was more of what is it called early labor. Is that what it?

Deborah : 19:13

is yes.

Ainslee Winter: 19:14

Yeah, so the early labor, just doing some of the massage, things, like having all these different things ready to go and then educating my sister in between contractions. Yes, like this, no, like this I did and like I told you, my pain management is not great and mental, like you said, mental as well. I was very squirmy, like I looked like, yeah, like my chicken, like a chicken with their head cut off a little bit. Every time a contraction would come, I'd start running around the house and she'd have to run after me and start doing the massaging.

Deborah : 19:49

Oh God, that's funny. I don't know what it felt like, so anyway, that wasn't exactly how, but I understand what you're saying and that's how you felt in that moment. I'm sure your sisters were like blown away, yeah.

Ainslee Winter: 20:00

Yeah, my sister who was giving me massages in that moment. She's now pregnant, so I can't wait to offer her the same support, and that's how community works.

Ainslee Winter: 20:09

Yeah, it is so yeah. So then I ended up going back to the hospital around 1am the next day and that was the same nurse and I love the nurse. Oh my gosh, she was amazing she's. Does it feel a little different this time? I'm like, yes, get me the epidural now. I love that. It was like night and day, it was so funny. So then she checked me and I was still only like literally two centimeters, two to three centimeters, and so she said I, if I can, because I was clearly in a lot of pain uh walk, yeah, the hospital halls, um, and which I did walk, but then she noticed I was having the back contractions and the lower pain in the back.

Ainslee Winter: 20:58

She suggested I do these specific. There was like three exercises I forget what it's called, but there was a name for it but one of them was like you're walking sideways up the stairs yeah and then the other one is like downward dog, but you had to do these things for 20 minutes, each 20 minutes and then 20 minutes, I think, walking I forget what the third one was I don't know what the three of them are called together, but curb walking is what you're doing on the stairs.

Deborah : 21:26

Yeah, yeah, curb walking you were doing. I look sounds like you were doing a crawl of some sort it was, I would just get in the bed.

Ainslee Winter: 21:34

I was in like a downward dog position and then. But every time I contracted I had to be standing, like I could.

Deborah : 21:42

It was like really yeah, oh, she was doing probably some of the spinning babies. It sounds like babies, okay, yeah, so that's forward leaning inversion. Yes, okay, yeah, okay. So she was doing that to get the baby rocking down and then an hour later I felt it boom, like fall.

Ainslee Winter: 22:01

I could feel it and I was like, wow, thank you for those suggestions. That was really helpful. Yeah, and then she checked me and I was finally four centimeters. So this is finally go and get the epidural that I've been planning for that. I really felt like I needed yeah, because I was spiraling a little bit like time of the contractions and the pain and just trying to manage and especially if I were to go back now, I would want a doula during the early labor because mentally I think I needed some support yeah, I think that is a lot of times we don't understand the difference.

Deborah : 22:39

We, yeah, getting to active labor is one of the hardest things. Yeah, they're being told about positionings to ease that, being told like I can see that you're struggling, it's time to rest, let's use the water, let's do this, let's do that, and I think that a lot of the doulas all over the world they offer just active labor because it's a shorter time that they have to be with you. Yeah, and that just means that doulas need to raise their prices so that they give you the options. This is what it would be if I am coming early in labor. This would what is for for active labor and also working with other doulas. This is something that we're really working on right now.

Deborah : 23:21

Is there can be a new doula who's experienced with early labor? Right, that that can come for a discounted price or do one on one work with you and your sisters? I do a lot of this work where I work with the birth team. If you don't want me to show up to active labor, then I need a one on one with your partner. Yeah, yeah, we can, and that we're just doing texting or something like that. So I love that. So after you got the epidural, we're resting easy. I remember that text message.

Ainslee Winter: 23:51

Yeah, so once I look okay. So before I got the epidural I got to four centimeters, but then the rooms were full and I wasn able to transition over. So I had to wait and she felt the nurse felt so bad because of how much pain I was in and she that's one of the things that I utilized, like some of the educational work prior was she's like all I can do on this side is offer you a shot of morphine. Yes, and I just knew for myself I did not want that. So it was just like already, just no, I'm gonna deal with the pain. I didn't want it affecting my baby's heart rate and things like that.

Ainslee Winter: 24:28

I just held in there and then, luckily, 20 minutes later, a room opened up and we had to run. So I'm running. It was great. As soon as I got into the room I sat on the bed and the anesthesiologist was there waiting for me and it was just like immediate epidural. Yeah, I was. It was like night and day experience, um, but I know there's a lot of fear around the epidural as well and from my experience, it did not hurt at all, like zero, and especially in comparison to the contractions, I was feeling like I literally didn't feel anything and then, yeah, it just it wasn't this scary, fearful thing that that I think sometimes it can be portrayed as yeah knowing that there are risks as well.

Ainslee Winter: 25:20

But and not everyone's experience is the same, but for me it was just very quick. And then, and you were pain-free?

Deborah : 25:28

yeah, was it. Were you fully pain-free?

Ainslee Winter: 25:30

like it worked really well for you it worked exactly how I wanted it to still feel my legs, yeah, so move my legs I could. I felt like still like I had a sense of control I could. I felt like still like I had a sense of control, like I could still feel I wasn't completely numbed out, but I was able to now relax a little bit and just allow the process to unfold without me resisting as much. I rest literally before having to, whether it's push or towards the end, the final violation yeah, I was really feeling it.

Ainslee Winter: 26:01

Then the epidural was not working the same anymore, or obviously, and that's when I started to again utilize some of the tools that I had been preparing with. There was like a spiral breath work in birthing from within that I kept coming back to, and then I would start to squirm and immediately my doula and the nurse in the room, they grounded me and reminded me again mentally right, you do your breath work, do your breathing. And I had to. I used my hand. So with every inhale I would like move my hand up and with every exhale I would move my hand down. So it was a way for me to come back to my body, because breathing in itself I felt like I could have got lost in my thoughts, and so, by matching my breath with my hand movements, I was able to focus, I was able to ground and just get through those really challenging contractions.

Deborah : 26:57

That's actually a technique called rhythmic breathing, designed by Penny Simkin.

Ainslee Winter: 27:04

It really helped me. There's videos of me doing it, I and then, all prior, I had my music, I had playlists ready to go, but as soon as I was getting to these final moments, the music was off. I was overstimulated the whole time and then I was just, yeah, stimulated my clothes the whole time and then I was just, yeah, moving my hand and breathing and, yeah, having my support team.

Deborah : 27:26

I love that. So I think what you're talking about there having the music off, like that's called being in your primal brain. There's sinking brain and primal brain and we call it labor land or labor brain, whatever. There's lots of language around that. But in order for you to stay in your primal brain, you need to either connect to your body or have something that grounds you and because the thinking brain just puts you into like tensing up around your body.

Deborah : 27:54

And I think that you made a very valid point about the epidural being portrayed in a way that's not kind and also very unforgiving to women who've chosen that path, and I think that is so wrong in so many ways, because the epidural is a great tool for labor and birth. If that is your choice and understanding that, the birth team that you have. Sometimes, even though you don't want the epidural, sometimes it's a necessity and your birth team can usually tell when you're not coping that squirming and running around like a chicken, like that, is not well coping. And if you're doing that, chances are your body is not just welcoming the wave of the contraction. Now, early labor, you can do whatever you want Some people run, some people walk, some whatever, and so maybe in that moment it wasn't as imperative that you get into your primal brain.

Deborah : 28:51

But in active labor it is so important that you get there, and if you can't, the epidural is almost always the answer. It takes away the pain enough for you to regroup, decide on how you're going to manage when transition hits or pushing hits, and to give you that rest and to slow your body down. I love that you did that. I love the breath work that you use and I love that you picked little pieces from basically all over the world birthing, birth work all over the world. It sounds like, even though you might not have known what you were doing in that moment, like it's been taught for 25 years. It's cool.

Ainslee Winter: 29:28

It was and it felt really good. I, I, after coming out of this experience, I am like elated to share my birth story and to talk about it, because I had such a great experience. It was like an experience that felt so profound in so many ways, more than just the physical. It was just a very empowering experience and that's why I hope to share and like I just don't want people to be fearful, scared, going into birth and just also prepare as best as possible. Or, yeah, just have some of these conversations around preparing in different ways.

Deborah : 30:09

Yeah, Knowing that not every birth looks the same way and the way that you prepare can be right for you, and the more stories that you hear that are positive, you're like, ok, I wouldn't mind doing that, I don't want this, but I wouldn't mind doing that, yeah, yeah. So obviously the epidural was a beautiful epidural that you were got to rest and then, as transition hit, you started to feel, because epidurals, no matter how wonderful and great they are, they don't always take away the pressure part and sometimes that can be confused in labor as pain, but it's pressure your baby's got to move down through your body yeah and sounds like during transition you were feeling some of those things.

Ainslee Winter: 30:49

So yeah, yeah, oh yes, it was like but even that it was still great, like I was happy to feel it in communication with the nurse. Because now the nurse is starting to feel and notice, like telling me when I need to start pushing and all those sorts of things, and I'd be like, okay, the contract, it's happening, it's happening. She's like wait, just wait one second, wait a little bit longer, and then once it was like really like contracting, then I would push. My nurse was so great at making sure that I wasn't wasting the energy, which was helpful. We did wait once I was fully dilated.

Deborah : 31:21

We waited some time for the baby to drop a bit and yeah, thing you had told me about as well, when you have the epidural and you don't have this overwhelming urge to push, just hold that back just a little bit so that you're not pushing for two or three hours. Sounds like your nurse was incredible. Helped you do that like mindfully, let the baby do the big work and come down, yeah, so that you're pushing was in less time than had you started pushing right as soon as you felt the urge and I'm not saying people who feel the urge shouldn't push.

Deborah : 31:54

That's up to them, that's your choice, but in that moment that's what was right for you, and also how what your labor looks like. Laboring through the night is very different than laboring through the day. If you're not rested, so tell me about your pushing. Okay, so my pushing.

Ainslee Winter: 32:11

Oh my gosh, it was so funny. So my pushing I just know that my doula, Rochelle, she was on one side of me holding my leg and my hand, and then Hesham was on the other side of me holding my leg and my hand. Hesham, oh man, he needed some help and guidance with how to do it. He's like I was not prepared for this and I was just like Hesham, just hold my leg and my hand, that's all you have to do. I'm the one. So, yeah, it was 40 minutes of pushing, which was, yeah, Incredible. So yeah, it was 40 minutes of pushing, which was yeah, incredible.

Ainslee Winter: 32:42

It was great. So 40 minutes of pushing. She did give me a bit of what is it, pitocin? Yeah, she had the very end, just because she said that my window is really long in between the contractions, or a bit longer than she would ideally want. So it was just a bend just to get the baby going than she would ideally want. So it's just an end just to get the baby going. But yeah, I just pushed for 40 minutes and it was easier. The pushing was easier than the end of the opening.

Deborah : 33:12

Yeah, the transition. I talk about this a lot, I think, in our minds, because we're doing something against the pain and the pressure. Yes, like the pushing feels like. Yes, I finally get to do something, like it's an action that we take against the pain how I like to describe it, yeah, and then my mind is focused on something like that.

Ainslee Winter: 33:36

It's not just more passively, like letting things ride where, yeah, the action is really helpful.

Deborah : 33:42

Was your mom with you at the same time Was your mom there.

Ainslee Winter: 33:44

Yeah, my mom was there holding space. So she was present because I find that if I'm distressed or when things go not great like she would be the person that I would really like feel safe with. She was also there to support Hesham if he needed any additional support. But it was honestly great. One of my final pushes had the made the mistake of answering a phone call. During pushing process I yelled at Hesham like get over here. And then that's when I just did my like monster roar push and the nurse was like whoa, that really helped. That really worked. And then all of a sudden we're getting the doctors over because baby's about to like fly right out of me.

Deborah : 34:32

Oh, I love that Not balancing in the moment right. Like you have a strong community, you have a strong support system. People know you're in labor. Strong community, you have a strong support system. People know you're in labor and the partner is usually the person that's in charge of communicating with, like people outside.

Ainslee Winter: 34:47

And it's really hard to navigate that because there are people that you do want to be involved in knowing everything and I know your sister-in-law, so I know she was one of those oh yeah, absolutely, and, to be honest, like I had been off my phone for probably two days, like I could not even think about holding it, messaging like I just wasn't all there, like in it, as in my process yeah, protecting your space, protecting your mindset, yeah, yeah, exactly him answering the phone gave you a little bit of yeah, I got that in me?

Ainslee Winter: 35:21

I definitely have that in me. So, yeah, the baby came with that nice big push and then we called the doctors and then I had shared with you before already.

Ainslee Winter: 35:32

They said okay, we're going to get the doctor now. So just hold it here and I'm like, okay, the doctor's coming. And then the nurse is okay, now you're going to show the doctor your big push, just how we just have been practicing. I was like, okay, here we go, I'm expecting another like 30 to 40 minutes of pushing with the doctor, and then I do my push and there he is. I'm just like what? Like just one push and then the baby comes out.

Ainslee Winter: 35:58

I could not believe it. I was in such shock which, like to me like that would be something I would want to know going into it again, or for somebody who's never done it before, because I was not ready for the baby, like mentally, I thought I was still gonna be pushing for a while. I didn't, and I didn't know how my pushing was going. I know you can bring a mirror in sometimes and look, would do that maybe next time. Yeah, I had no idea how far along and part of me didn't even want to ask because I didn't want to be disappointed if it wasn't far enough, like things like that.

Ainslee Winter: 36:30

But yeah, so when the doctor came and all of a sudden the baby is out, I just remember seeing limbs all over the place and it being like plopped on my belly and I'm like, oh my gosh. I was so shocked and in my head I had this moment of because we had a few different names that we were considering. It's like oh, when the baby's born, I'll know, I'll look into his eyes and I'll just know. It was not like that at all. It was very like wow's limbs, now it's on my belly Now. Now I can't actually see the baby actually either, because my, my chin doesn't move that far down, so I couldn't really long, and typically the first time mom can push for hours sometimes, but that laboring down part was really beneficial for you.

Deborah : 37:28

That's what helps that. First of all, it sounds like I wasn't there, but sounds like that birthing down really helped you. And also, when you're pushing effectively and you can feel it, sometimes that happens, that's what happened. But you're right In a lot of ways, not knowing is beneficial for your mindset. So if the nurse said to you hold back on your pushing for a little bit, right, that means that they didn't want you to push until the OB had showed up, which is really hard to do, by the way, because you have that overwhelming urge to push and there's a lot about that. I don't necessarily I'm like urge to push, yeah, and there's a lot about that. I don't necessarily I'm like, oh, don't tell mom not to push. She wants to push. But also in that moment, if it's right for you, it's right for you and everybody was safe. You were safe, your baby was safe.

Deborah : 38:11

So it sounds like you were surprised that the baby was here, which happens quite often. Actually, when the baby's on you, it's wait a second. Did that just happen? And in one perfect push, right, yeah, right. You're also so tired in that moment, like it is like an overwhelming emotional sensation, like baby's here and it's put on you and you're like I did it, and it's really hard to look at the whole picture. I remember that and I see that in mama's eyes. It's like they're just not missing it, obviously, but like just taking a moment. Yeah, I was in shock. I was in shock, yeah, taking a moment like holy macaroni yes, yes, how much did he weigh.

Ainslee Winter: 38:51

He was seven pounds, seven ounces. Oh gosh yeah my little nugget so cute.

Ainslee Winter: 38:59

And then one of the things that I would probably do differently next time is I was so excited to share the baby with our close family members. However, just how quickly it went from being on my belly to me being in a wheelchair, going to the recovery room with baby, and suddenly there's people there waiting for me. It's a hard transition when you've just gone through something like that. It was my decision, though, Like it wasn't forced upon us. You know we wanted people there and we were so excited, but even in our birth or breastfeeding classes, they were really encouraging you to make sure you rest a lot in the first 24 hours, because it's normally after that where the baby will be meeting you, and even though you have all this adrenaline still from the birth, try to rest all those things that I didn't listen to. More space for just myself, partner and baby in the future for just myself partner and baby in the future.

Deborah : 40:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's a part of in that moment you're excited to share this beautiful gift that you've just created in birth, right, yeah, and that was right for your family at this time and that first 24 hours. There's so much that happens, but you're right, you're on a high. You're on such a high I know 100% that women could probably lift cars in those 24 hours and there is that sense of pride that you want to share. Also, this is another generation that you're sharing with your community and your family. I think that's also really important.

Deborah : 40:35

But the next day is usually the hardest day, the 24 hours old to 48 hours. And I really am a strong advocate for the five, five, five days, five days in bed, five days on bed, five days around the bed. And if you just took those two weeks really to just get a pattern going at home and I'm not talking about a breastfeeding, sleeping pattern, I'm talking about just a pattern for you and your partner and your baby I find that it sets you up for success a little bit better. And also like days five, six and seven is when the strongest hormone drop happens and that is when you're at the highest risk, right For all those pre and perinatal mood disorders. So yeah, like I love that, you don't regret that, but you know that you don't want that for your next child and your next birth.

Ainslee Winter: 41:27

Yeah, yeah, we were so excited to share in the excitement and like with our family. It's a connecting experience and that, to me, is so nourishing and also making sure that I have the appropriate space and I was saying this during my pregnancy was that it feels like I'm training for a marathon, which is the first, but then this is so bad to say but then I'm going to complete the marathon and then I'm going to get hit by a bus is what it was going to happen, because now I have a baby, and then what do I do? Hit by a bus is what it was going to happen, cause now I have a baby, and then what do I do? I spent nine months or however long, preparing for this birth, but then you have a baby and I had a baby before, and it's not like I can prepare for everything and all of that.

Ainslee Winter: 42:16

But I think that an area that I would get into more is the postpartum as well, especially even with my body, I was able to, thankfully, work out the whole time I was pregnant and it was an important part for my physical, mental, especially health. But then, postpartum, obviously you're resting for a good chunk of time, but I just wasn't. I also wasn't prepared for just the changes in body when you're breastfeeding, the changes like my appetite was wild. I wasn't prepared for that, I had no idea. So next time I would want to have like good, nourishing postpartum snacks ready to go, because I would make a tray of brownies every other day. Brownie like nonstop, yeah.

Deborah : 43:08

Easy and simple. I love, I love, actually, and I know you think I heard you say that this is bad to say, but I think that is a perfect way to describe it. You're training for the marathon. You've probably seen some of my content on Instagram. You should put as much work into your postpartum journey as you do for your baby shower yeah, same amount of work and for your nursery, because you know how many hours people put into that. You should put into your postpartum journey the first. I say 20 days. 20 days but it is true, right, like you train and you train for the marathon, you go through the marathon.

Deborah : 43:45

But recovery from a marathon for anybody who runs, it's very specific. We don't come home and just go back to running the next day. We take days off and refuel properly, we rerate properly, we recover properly yeah, but we don't do that for a baby's birth. I also feel like a lot of that is about talking about it. Who's the breastfeeding like? How do I do that and what time do I do that at? What week is the best week?

Deborah : 44:15

And I was very similar to you, like I would get up in the middle of the night to feed and I would scarf food like bowls and bowls of cereal, like in containers, like a normal cup size bowl. I was just starving during breastfeeding during pregnancy too, I was, I know I did not limit my calories at all, and I found that I also wasn't prepared. I did some of the same things and I think that is how you learn right. That's how you learn the next time you do it differently. Yeah, and I also think that we want to do all the things right.

Deborah : 44:49

We want to visit with our mom. We want to visit with our sisters. We want to visit with our mother-in-law, our sister-in-law. We want to have brownies baked for whoever wants them when they come over, obviously baked for whoever wants them when they come over, obviously. That's not always feasible because you're recovering. You have to recover emotionally, mentally, physically, and then you have this whole person to care for and they have no way of communicating. Really, you learn their communication, but in the first few days you don't learn their cries. Yeah, did you have difficulty with breastfeeding at all? Thankfully, yeah.

Ainslee Winter: 45:17

Yeah, it was very natural and he latched easily and he gained a lot of weight when we went for our checkup a few days afterwards. And I love breastfeeding, yeah, like I and again, no judgment, I was just going into this experience being I will do whatever I can to keep this baby alive. If I will try my hardest to breastfeed, because that's what I would like to do, and if I can't, I'm not gonna, you know, feel bad about having to do it in another way. As long as the baby is alive, then that's that's great, right. So, but I was surprised I said to Haysham recently, I was like saying how I think my favorite part of motherhood is breastfeeding. That's hard, yeah, and he's like, really, because he sees it as a task, something I have to do, almost like something that has to get done. Yeah, but I find it to be just very. There's nothing that feels better than being able to ease your child who needs something. So it just looks so regulating, like it regulates my system, it regulates his system, it's just very connecting.

Deborah : 46:25

So I was really surprised at that you have no choice of being present, yeah, yeah, and also giving your baby something that it needs, that your body creates yeah, yeah, that's cool too.

Ainslee Winter: 46:38

I can't, I couldn't wrap my mind around that either. It's like I can't believe one day there was no, maybe there was milk, but I wasn't having milk coming out of here, and now I have a ridiculous amount of milk coming out. So this is wild. Yes, it's just amazing, yeah.

Deborah : 46:54

So I guess with that I want to ask this question, because I do really find that women really struggle with this Do you look at your body differently now that you've been pregnant and gave birth and breastfed?

Ainslee Winter: 47:07

Wow, what a good question. Yeah, I definitely look at it differently. I appreciate it. There's I think sometimes there's judgment to the changing body, but I just feel like there's just this amazement in our body and what it's capable of and just its ability to move in so many different ways, even like how I was when I was pregnant, compared to what I am right now. I'm just like in awe at its ability to shape, shift and do what's needed for what's best for our health and, yeah, I'm amazed it is changing. I do think that a lot of people struggle, but I try to keep a healthy mindset around it and I love my body for giving me this and like just trying to really anchor into the appreciation of all the different aspects.

Deborah : 48:05

I think that when we talk about a lot of negative feelings around body, it's about body image instead of looking at what our bodies are capable of.

Deborah : 48:15

And I always like to remind women pregnancy is not always fun and you don't have to love it or hate it. It's whatever you feel is validating, and I will validate it for you, and then for birth the same thing, and then for feeding the same thing. But when you look back at it, our bodies are profound. We grew a whole human being and we have a system like the uterus is incredible. I could talk about that all day long. But what it does at the end, during labor and before labor, and all of the mechanics of that, the anatomy of it, and then we get this baby out with one powerful push, in your case, and then our body kicks in and develops food for it In most cases. I'm not saying that it comes quite like that for every single person, and I know people struggle with getting pregnant and I know people struggle with birth. I know people struggle with pregnancy or with breastfeeding, but when you look back at it it's like damn, how did we ever feel that we weren't enough?

Deborah : 49:18

Yeah, that's such a good point. It just blows my mind. I have a special portal that creates human life.

Ainslee Winter: 49:27

I know, yeah, and it comes back to me when you say that is just like coming back to our sense of power and like so many systems, have taken it away from us.

Ainslee Winter: 49:37

I think that the work that you do, and along with other doulas and a variety of different service providers, is just reminding us that we do have this power. This is innate within us and that's why this process of entering into motherhood has been so profound is because it is more than just having a baby. It's reconnecting to all these other parts of you. And what is motherhood and I could talk about that for a very long time Motherhood is not even remotely what I thought it would be Like. There's so much strength. I always thought motherhood was oh, I'll be a more nurturing, compassionate. It felt very like soft, but now I'm connecting with that, like more sense of like mother bear, like the power. And there's this whole other side that I had totally just I knew it was there, probably logically, but I've really been feeling into that and that's something that is. I'm grateful for it and I think it's going to show up in many other aspects of my life.

Deborah : 50:42

Okay.

Deborah : 50:43

So since you brought that up, I want to say this first, I love how, at the beginning of this conversation we were talking about, you were pregnant and you really didn't know if you want to be a mother, and many times during this conversation you talked about my next birth, my next baby, and you brought up the mama bear thing, and I really feel that happens to us as mothers. We want to make changes, right. We want to make changes when we have this perfect human life and it's like how can I now do that in my community? And that we haven't talked about yet is what you do for a living, what you do as you're, besides being a mother and a wife. Do you think that mama bear thing that showed up is impacting your business and the way that you show up in your community? Because I know what you do and I would love for you to share that with my audience and then talk about, maybe, if that is impacting how you're moving forward in your clinical practice that is impacting how you're moving forward in your clinical practice.

Ainslee Winter: 51:45

So my background's in art therapy, the form of psychotherapy that utilizes the creative process to explore different themes based on what the client's needs and goals are. So, as I said, I've been a very visual learner and I find for myself sometimes we don't have the words to express some of the challenging things that we're going through, whether it's birth related or completely outside of the birthing world, based on trauma, loss, grief, just mental illness, stress, and so we utilize the creative process as a means for healing. Oftentimes I hear from people do you have to be creative? Do you have to be an artist in order to go for art therapy? Do you just analyze people's artwork and all the answers? No. For those questions, I truly think that anybody can be creative, and whether you deem yourself creative or not, it doesn't matter, because the good, the bad and the ugly are all parts of life. So, even if you were creative, it's not like I would be encouraging you to come in and create a perfect piece of artwork. What we're doing is more so taking what's inside of the body, your own experiences. Maybe you see them as certain symbols or metaphors, and then we put them onto paper. So, instead of talking back and forth face to face, we now have a means to communicate in a different way, and it's all about being curious. I like to be curious about what's coming up for them, opposed to assuming or judging and analyzing those sorts of things.

Ainslee Winter: 53:18

So it's really client centered and the mother bear energy shows up in the sense that I think, just as a on a personal level, I've been taking part in my own art therapy with the world we're living in right now. I envision and I would like for my son to live in a world he wants to live in and he wants to be here. I will do whatever I can to make sure that we cultivate a world that he feels like he wants to live in. There's a lot going on right now, so I will do my best. It grounds me and roots me and makes me feel more motivated and determined to make sure I'm holding myself accountable to create these changes.

Ainslee Winter: 54:04

How do I do that? For me it's I can help on an individual level, like seeing clients one on one. When we begin to work with clients individually, they begin to transform and then, with that spider ripple effect, right Like it's just getting to expand. When they make changes, how is that going to impact their family unit? How will that impact our community? So I do find that the job that I have working with clients is really impactful and powerful, and also just working within the community setting and with different organizations. And how can we cultivate different events, healing events for individuals using the creative process? How can it be connected to social change as well? How can we elevate voices that need to be heard? How can we create opportunities for the community to come together and learn in a different way? How can we build empathy through creativity? These are all things that I think about and that my son is really rooting me in, and, yeah, I will stay on the battlefield until the day I die, essentially trying to make the world a better place.

Deborah : 55:13

Yeah, I love that. I love one of the things that you said about elevating voices that need to be heard.

Ainslee Winter: 55:19

Yeah.

Deborah : 55:20

And I think that is really important, because we might not be directly on the battlefield all the things at this time and we can only do whatever's in our zone of genius, right. We can only do one mother at a time for me, you, one client at a time, or a mother, whatever that is and hope that the ripple effect is strong enough to make a big change, and I love that so much. That is really resonating with me. Elevate voices that need to be heard and I think that your work is really important.

Deborah : 55:53

I really feel drawn to it for children myself and I don't know what it is about that Like when my kids were struggling, they didn't want to sit with a therapist, they didn't want to do that one to one back and forth, and I also think that being taught at a certain age that this is okay through whatever kind of therapy, but for my kids, art therapy is something that they did and they didn't feel like they were doing therapy. But I don't think that it's just necessarily for children. I honestly think my husband would probably enjoy art therapy more than couples therapy. He would get more out of that.

Ainslee Winter: 56:32

Yeah, it's more than just kids. Oftentimes people do this for kids. I actually only work with a clientele age nine and up, just because my expertise isn't the younger children, but yeah, it's for literally anybody, and I work with a lot of adults specifically who are maybe moving through, trying to work around their traumas or anxiety, depression, and just being able to support individuals through this process, and that is why, obviously, I connected with birthing from within. I am such a visual person and we're constantly being surrounded by images and by symbols, right. Utilizing them and letting them guide your therapeutic process is sometimes really impactful and powerful.

Ainslee Winter: 57:20

One of the things I love to do is almost like a scavenger hunt or like just having an intention and then taking. I have a bunch of National Geographic's magazines, so there are lots of symbols, right, lots of images. That's part of our primal brain. It connects image with sense and all those sorts of things being able to just flip through the magazine and pull out, rip out things that are resonating and you might not be sure as to why they are. But it's just more of an intuitive process because I find sometimes our brains get in the way. We create stories all the time and it gets in the way of our healing. So I find the art making process can be something where we can take a step back, allow things to flow through, and then we can begin to discuss and make reason with what's coming up.

Deborah : 58:12

I think that is so cool. I also think about that. I think about how people dress right. Like people dress a lot of the time. You choose a lot of the same things, like, for me, big earrings, flashy, that's. I like to stand out, not necessarily for other people, but for myself. That makes me feel strong and powerful and I think we're attracted to all of the same things, whether that's in clothing or decorating your home, like whatever it is that resonates with you, and I've never thought about it like that before. I really love that. You explained that. Even when you think about children, like when you said the National Geographic, I'm like, oh my god. Like my daughter, lily loved that whatever. Whatever reason she was drawn to that, I don't know, and obviously she didn't use that kind of therapy, but I love that so much. I think that could be really helpful and I think you're right A lot of times we can't articulate how we feel because we don't understand. So if we don't understand them, how can we articulate that?

Ainslee Winter: 59:17

Yeah, no, exactly how do you articulate it, and sometimes there aren't words for it, there's, it's just sensation feels like heavy or actually postpartum. It was probably during my drop, the five to seven days so low. I was feeling good and I didn't. I haven't struggled with feeling that way throughout, but there was like a specific day I opened my sketchbook, which I had as a resource throughout my entire process. I opened my sketchbook and I just went through my magazines and I would rip out images that just stood out to how I was feeling in that moment. I showed my mom after, actually days later, cause if I told her in that moment I probably would have started crying, just because it was such a heavy emotional feeling but it was all these like dark images in the cave.

Ainslee Winter: 1:00:02

There was like all this stuff that was coming through that, but it felt good to be able to get it out of my body and just give it space into my sketchbook. I was able to represent it more visually and still, to this day, I couldn't tell you. If you asked me how did you feel in that moment and show you this picture like this is how I felt, like I can't tell you. If you asked me how did you feel in that moment and show you this picture like this is how I felt, like I can't tell you how I felt. And then I was able to incorporate elements of strength and adding supports to it if I wanted to. So I like really connect with different animal energies as well. So I was adding certain animals into it as a reminder that you can get through this. You can persevere. You've done it in the past. Like hard things, yeah.

Deborah : 1:00:44

I love that so much and I'm definitely going to use that when describing your services about how people can find you.

Ainslee Winter: 1:00:52

Yeah, so I have a website. It's revivalthruhandscom, okay, and then you can also find me on Instagram, also, it's revival through hands, and then you can find more information about booking, whether it's art, therapy services or just some of the work I do in the community and I'd love to connect further.

Deborah : 1:01:14

Amazing. So you heard it, guys. That's Revival Through Hands with Ainsley Winter and if you see Ainsley out in the community doing all the things, please say hi and thank her for her birth story today, because it was incredible. Thank you, ainsley, for being with me. I love your birth story. I love that I have a personal connection with you and I feel so grateful for your story today.

Ainslee Winter: 1:01:41

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me on here, debra, and thank you to anyone who listens, and I really hope that it helps in whatever way it's needed.

Deborah : 1:01:53

Amazing. Thank you, I love you.

Ainslee Winter: 1:01:55

Love you too. Thank you for being a part of my journey. This has been incredible.

Deborah : 1:01:59

Okay, bye, bye. This has been incredible. Okay, bye, bye. Talk to you soon. Okay, let's talk soon.